Legislature(2003 - 2004)

04/03/2003 05:10 PM Senate HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                                                                                                                                
         SB  30-ABORTION: INFORMED CONSENT; INFORMATION                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRED DYSON  called the Senate Health,  Education and Social                                                             
Services  Standing  Committee  meeting  to  order  at  5:10  p.m.                                                               
Present were SENATORS  GUESS and DAVIS. He announced SB  30 to be                                                               
up for  consideration. He explained  that the new version  adds a                                                               
new  section   to  legislative   findings,  recommended   by  the                                                               
Department of  Law that explains the  state's compelling interest                                                               
in  regulating this  issue. Section  2  of the  bill directs  the                                                               
Department  of Health  and Social  Services (DHSS)  to develop  a                                                               
free pamphlet to assist pregnant  women in their choices. Doctors                                                               
are not  required to use the  pamphlet, but they are  offered the                                                               
option and  can supply whatever  other information they  want to.                                                               
This version  (Q) also  elevates informed  consent, which  was in                                                               
regulation,  to   statute  and  adds  to   the  current  abortion                                                               
reporting  requirement whether  or  not the  client received  the                                                               
pamphlet.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BETTYE  DAVIS moved to adopt  the CS to SB  30, version Q                                                               
for purposes of discussion. There were no objections.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARI  GALREAVE, Fairbanks medical  professional, said  that a                                                               
fetus is  not an unborn child  unless you subscribe to  a certain                                                               
religion.  In her  religion, the  soul  enters the  body 40  days                                                               
after conception.  Her point  is to  keep religion  separate from                                                               
abortion rights. She stated, "If  the new pamphlet uses the words                                                               
'unborn child,'  it is harassment.  Don't legislate  what someone                                                               
should say in the new pamphlet."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN arrived at 5:15 p.m.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. RUTH  ABBOTT testified  on behalf of  a local  Delta Junction                                                               
charity  and  said,  "Women  should insist  on  being  given  the                                                               
respect of being  provided with all the  information necessary to                                                               
make  an  informed decision  as  is  mandatory  in all  of  their                                                               
medical procedures."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DR.  BOB JOHNSON,  Kodiak, said  he  is a  retired physician  and                                                               
while  he was  practicing, he  did  abortions. He  has plenty  of                                                               
experience talking to women about  their decisions and responding                                                               
to their  questions about  the procedure and  believes this  is a                                                               
highly private  matter. Women have  the right to  know everything                                                               
they  want to  know  and  everything they  should  know and  that                                                               
applies to any procedure that is performed on them. He noted:                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     For the  Legislature to make  the assumption  that they                                                                    
     know  what women  should ask  is presumptuous.  I think                                                                    
     they do  have the right  to know anything they  want to                                                                    
     know and they should be able  to ask and they should be                                                                    
     able to learn what they need to learn....                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DR.  JOHNSON explained  that he  scheduled four  appointments for                                                               
each  abortion. The  first one  was  to help  decide whether  the                                                               
patient  had made  an  appropriate decision;  the  second was  to                                                               
answer questions  about the  procedure as well  as its  short and                                                               
long-term effects. In his experience,  he found none of the short                                                               
and long  term effects publicized  by the Right-to-Life  group to                                                               
be factual.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. CYNDI  SAUNDERS said she  wanted both  men and women  to know                                                               
the truth about the pain,  guilt and relationship problems that a                                                               
20 to  30 minute  procedure can  have on the  rest of  a person's                                                               
life. She  is sad that she  had the procedure three  times and no                                                               
one told her  how she would feel  30 or 40 years later  or how it                                                               
would affect her children that are alive today.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. CASSANDRA  JOHNSON said  the main purpose  of the  wording in                                                               
the proposed pamphlet  is to intimidate women and  make them feel                                                               
guilty for exercising  their rights. Aside from  being an attempt                                                               
to  withdraw women's  rights, there  are  several other  problems                                                               
with the  bill. First,  the Legislature  has no  business telling                                                               
doctors  the specifics  of  what they  can  tell their  patients.                                                               
Doctors are already bound by  standards of practice which include                                                               
complete and  unbiased information about medical  procedures, and                                                               
insures that  any patient  truly consents  to the  procedure they                                                               
are   about  to   undergo.   There  is   no   need  for   special                                                               
information/consent  for an  abortion. The  proposed "counseling"                                                               
material  is  clearly   biased  and  includes  a   lot  of  other                                                               
information    about    pregnancies    and    possible    serious                                                               
complications.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. AMY MENARD said she is  an attorney primarily for health care                                                               
delivery,   medical   licensing   and   liability   issues.   She                                                               
recommended that  the committee  table this  bill, because  it is                                                               
contrary  to  existing Alaska  law  and  its  need has  not  been                                                               
demonstrated. She maintained:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     As  a matter  of Alaska  law, abortion  like any  other                                                                    
     medical   treatment  or   procedure,  always   requires                                                                    
     informed consent under AS 09.55.556.  That has been law                                                                    
     for 27 years.  This law guarantees not  only that women                                                                    
     have  a right  to information  about medical  care, but                                                                    
     that  all   Alaskans  do.  Moreover,  the   content  of                                                                    
     informed consent  is covered ethically by  the American                                                                    
     Medical  Association's code  of ethics.  Code provision                                                                    
     8.08  already  directs  physicians and  their  informed                                                                    
     consent obligation to their patient.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     The so-called findings as articulated  at the outset of                                                                    
     the  bill  are  patently  wrong.  This  bill  does  not                                                                    
     promote   judicial   economy   nor  will   it   provide                                                                    
     clarification  for physicians.  It's actually  contrary                                                                    
     to the  rubric of [indisc.].  And what this  bill does,                                                                    
     particularly with  its informed consent  provisions, it                                                                    
     decrees a  double standard  for physicians  who provide                                                                    
     abortion  services contrary  to those  who do  not. The                                                                    
     creation  of  this  pamphlet and  the  language  that's                                                                    
     supposed to be added to  the bill, and I'm referring to                                                                    
     subsection (h) that would be  under Title 18.16.010, is                                                                    
     contrary to  existing law as it  regards physicians and                                                                    
     their  practices.  Decreeing  [indisc.]  language  with                                                                    
     regard to informed consent that  is contrary to what is                                                                    
     already called for under Title 9.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     This law is  poorly written and unsupported.  As far as                                                                    
     the findings articulated, it  will not clarify anything                                                                    
     for  physicians and  it will  guarantee litigation  for                                                                    
     the state.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  JENNIFER ESTERL,  Alaska Civil  Liberties Union,  opposed SB
30;  one  reason  being  the   extra  mandatory  counseling  that                                                               
includes  irrelevant  medical information.  Mandatory  extraneous                                                               
lectures  do  not  give  women  accurate  or  meaningful  medical                                                               
information;  they put  words in  doctors' mouths  and involve  a                                                               
litany of conceivable pros and  cons even when those alternatives                                                               
are not in  the patient's best interest and, worse  yet, may even                                                               
harm her. Women  who are seeking prenatal care in  order to carry                                                               
a pregnancy to term should not  be forced to waste time and money                                                               
listening  to a  diatribe about  their options  and alternatives.                                                               
She informed them  that the risk of carrying  a pregnancy through                                                               
to childbirth is 20 times greater  than that of a first trimester                                                               
abortion.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Second, this  bill refers to possible  psychological effects that                                                               
have  been  associated  with  having  an  abortion.  Substituting                                                               
politicians'  judgments  to that  of  doctors'  is misleading.  A                                                               
1987-88  investigation  by the  attorney  general  of the  United                                                               
States (who  was not  a champion  of choice)  and a  World Health                                                               
Organization study state there is  no medical evidence that shows                                                               
abortion causes psychological injury.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Third, requiring physicians to  deliver extraneous lectures makes                                                               
access to  quality reproductive health  care much  more difficult                                                               
and expensive.  Informed consent is already  required for medical                                                               
procedures.  "This  bill  is  designed to  make  a  woman's  very                                                               
personal decision even more difficult...."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. KATHY TODD  said she is a practicing physician  in Valdez and                                                               
opposes SB 107 for all  the reasons previously stated. Women come                                                               
to her already  having very carefully considered  their options -                                                               
having talked  to their significant others,  their friends, their                                                               
pastors and  another physician sometimes. They  need other health                                                               
information by the  time they see her. She  stated that sometimes                                                               
24-hours is  a long time  and means  an extra journey  for people                                                               
who live  100 miles  from her  office - and  this happens  a lot.                                                               
Evidence shows  that informed consent  issues are  best discussed                                                               
with  social  workers  and  specially  trained  nurses,  not  the                                                               
physician. It  has also  been proven that  people won't  read any                                                               
pamphlet that is more than two pages long.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. VIRGINIA  PHILLIPS said that  SB 30 is desperately  needed in                                                               
Alaska. She explained,  "Most of the time a woman  is not told of                                                               
her options. A  24-hour waiting period is needed to  give a woman                                                               
time to evaluate all her options along with the consequences."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
She  said  that  most  women  don't  realize  that  the  National                                                               
Physicians  Center for  Family and  the  [indisc.] Cancer  Center                                                               
have acknowledged  there is an  abortion-breast cancer  link. She                                                               
surmised, "The state has a  compelling interest to pass this bill                                                               
to protect a woman's physical, mental and emotional health...."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  EILEEN  BECKER said  she  has  five  children and  has  been                                                               
involved with the  Homer Pregnancy Care Center for  15 years. She                                                               
stated that  in a recent article,  she read that only  24 percent                                                               
of women who have abortions  don't have regrets or after effects.                                                               
About 10 million women in  American regret their decision and, in                                                               
the last 30  years, 40 million babies have been  aborted. One out                                                               
of every  four women in American  has had an abortion,  very high                                                               
numbers. Post  abortion syndrome  is an  actual feeling  that she                                                               
helps women deal with at the Homer Pregnancy Care Center.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. JENNIE  GRIMWOOD, Cordova resident,  said that  this informed                                                               
consent bill and pamphlet is very important. She indicated:                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Often  many women  who  are  pregnant don't  understand                                                                    
     fetal  development.  Many  times  health  professionals                                                                    
     don't  answer  all  the questions.  A  scared  pregnant                                                                    
     women  is   often  an  uninformed   one...The  abortion                                                                    
     industry puts blinders on women.  They don't want women                                                                    
     to really know what is  happening to their bodies. Many                                                                    
     women today are coerced  into having abortions by their                                                                    
     boyfriends,  health  professionals, their  parents  and                                                                    
     uncles. It often  is not an individual choice  or a pro                                                                    
     choice, as people would have  us believe. It is often a                                                                    
     choice made out of fear and ignorance....                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DR. COLLEEN  MURPHY, Anchorage  OB/GYN, said  she is  an abortion                                                               
provider  and provides  health  care that  is  sanctioned by  the                                                               
National Abortion  Federation. She has a  multitude of guidelines                                                               
to  follow in  her  practice  and she  endeavors  to provide  the                                                               
highest  quality care  for  women  throughout their  reproductive                                                               
health careers.  She informed the  committee that  current levels                                                               
of care  already exceed those  prescribed in the bill.  Birth and                                                               
abortion  considerations are  a private  concern between  her and                                                               
her  patient. They  talk about  it  and decide  together what  is                                                               
needed. She urged them to, "Leave medicine to doctors...."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. DEBBIE  JOSLIN, Delta  Junction, said one  of her  four sons,                                                               
Isaiah,  was born  May  10, 1999  and died  32  days later.  It's                                                               
largely  because of  her experience  with him  that she  supports                                                               
this bill. The bill contains:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     ...unbiased    medical   information    regarding   the                                                                    
     development  of the  unborn child,  abortion procedure,                                                                    
     risks   associated  with   abortion,  alternatives   to                                                                    
     abortions  including  adoption   agencies  and  support                                                                    
     groups  for parents  and  children  with special  needs                                                                    
     such as Down's Syndrome....                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
She explained how her husband  had received a similar booklet for                                                               
his  eye cataract  procedure that  gave him  sound medical  facts                                                               
that allowed  him to  make a good  informed decision.  In Planned                                                               
Parenthood of Southeast Pennsylvania  v. Casey, the Supreme Court                                                               
upheld a state statute requiring  disclosure of the nature of the                                                               
abortion procedure, the risks of  the procedure, the alternatives                                                               
to the  procedure, the  gestational age of  the unborn  child and                                                               
the medical risks of carrying to term.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The court also said if  a woman shall request, she must                                                                  
     be  given   a  State  Department  of   Health  brochure                                                                    
     describing  fetal development  and a  list of  agencies                                                                    
     offering  alternatives to  abortion.  Many states  have                                                                    
     initiated legislation  that protects the state  and the                                                                    
     physician from liability by  giving this information to                                                                    
     all   women  who   are  considering   abortion  as   an                                                                    
     alternative....                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:43 p.m.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  EVA SMALL,  Juneau R.N.,  said  as a  registered nurse,  she                                                               
truly  understands  the  significance  of  informed  consent  and                                                               
rational  decision   making  for  patients   undergoing  surgical                                                               
procedures. Informed consent laws  form the foundation of medical                                                               
ethics that  guarantee the patient  the right to  make autonomous                                                               
rational decisions  free of coercion. Women's  right-to-know laws                                                               
empower  women  to make  informed  decisions.  Not only  do  they                                                               
insure  knowledge  of  the procedure  and  options,  but  include                                                               
information  on paternity  establishment and  child support.  She                                                               
supported many of the statements made earlier.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHN MONAGLE, President, Alaskans  for Life, said he recently                                                               
had major  surgery and the  doctor spent three hours  making sure                                                               
he  understood everything  about it  beforehand. Doctors  want to                                                               
protect themselves  from liability  and want  to furnish  as much                                                               
information as  possible to  their patients  for their  own good.                                                               
Conversely, women would want as  much information as they can get                                                               
about  any  surgery,  certainly  in the  case  of  pregnancy  and                                                               
abortions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. CAROLYN  BROWN said  she has  been a  physician for  about 44                                                               
years and for 25 years had  been in the practice of obstetric and                                                               
gynecology. She said:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     This proposed  bill will not mandate  much of anything.                                                                    
     If offers  a pamphlet  that we're  supposed to  give to                                                                    
     some people and doesn't tell us  who we have to give it                                                                    
     to; it doesn't  tell us who has to give  it to anybody;                                                                    
     it doesn't tell us the  person we're giving it to wants                                                                    
     an abortion,  doesn't want an  abortion or  hasn't made                                                                    
     their mind up yet. So, let's be clear on that.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN  said she  has three  basic issues  with the  bill; the                                                               
first being  that it is not  equitable and has a  "sincere amount                                                               
of discrimination."  There are 10,000  babies born in  this state                                                               
every year and  some are lost through miscarriage.  The bill does                                                               
not mandate this  information be given to all  pregnant women; it                                                               
only suggests that  the pamphlet can be given out.  The bill does                                                               
not say  who is going to  have the oversight of  the distribution                                                               
of  the  pamphlet and  who  will  make  sure the  information  is                                                               
correct.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DR. BROWN said  that some terms were not defined  very well, like                                                               
"circumstantial  criteria," "unbiased,"  "major bodily  function"                                                               
and "major  psychological function." She noted  that even doctors                                                               
can't  agree  on  what  those  things  mean  and  asked  how  the                                                               
legislature can come up with something and put it in stone.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Third, she  said the fiscal  note is  $42,000 for the  first year                                                               
and $24,000 for  the next five, but that wouldn't  begin to cover                                                               
costs when  they are  talking about a  waiting period  with women                                                               
having to travel. Somebody is going  to pay for them to stay over                                                               
night. Many women are on  Medicaid and the oversight for policing                                                               
will cost a great deal of money.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  APRIL  FERGUSON said,  "I  have  had  a  child; I  have  had                                                               
miscarriages  and  I  have  had  an  abortion  and  it's  all  my                                                               
business. It's  not your business;  it's not the business  of the                                                               
woman down the street...."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Further  she  said that  anyone  who  bases  a decision  of  this                                                               
magnitude  on  a  pamphlet  that   someone  hands  them  24-hours                                                               
beforehand is absolutely ignorant.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON announced that Senator  Green arrived at least a half                                                               
hour ago and  that the committee would hold the  bill for further                                                               
work.                                                                                                                           

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